Rt Hon Lord Lilley

    Mr. Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden): Can the Minister confirm that under the pension credit, which will affect the majority of pensioners, any pensioner will keep only 60p of every extra pound of pension income that they save?

    Mr. McCartney: When the right hon. Gentleman was Secretary of State, pensioners got nothing: for every pound saved, they lost a pound. He gave with one hand, and took with the other.

    Mr. Lilley indicated dissent.

    Mr. McCartney: Perhaps I should start again. The right hon. Gentleman owes this House and our country an apology for the way he managed this Department as Secretary of State. He introduced rules that meant that, for every pound a pensioner saved, their entitlement was reduced by a further pound. The pension credit has at last put right the mistakes that he made.